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September 06, 2006
Slash Circle Slash: Drinking with Matt Sesow (Part 1 of ???)
Interview by Jon Lee
Matt Sesow is a punk. Matt Sesow hates art. Matt Sesow thinks your life is boring. Matt Sesow is doing what you want to do.
I met Matt Sesow in 2001. He was quiet, cute and not at all what I expect when I think of an artist completely fucking with the art world’s business and aesthetic conventions. Then I went to his 2001 show at Corcoran’s White Walls Gallery. I realized this quiet, polite and handsome guy was doing something I hadn’t seen in the DC art scene: He was making art because he had to.
By the end of 2001, Sesow was painting full time in his small, turpentine-soaked studio apartment in Adams Morgan. Today, the man is constantly painting and constantly showing. He’s had plays written in response to his paintings. He’s been given fellowships and glossy spreads in magazines and papers. Matt Sesow is a successful painter and he doesn’t give a shit. Well, not really.
Matt and I sat down on April Fool’s Day 2006 to drink way too much beer and chat about work, art and whatever the hell came out of our mouths for over four hours. When I arrived at Matt’s studio, he was finishing up a painting called Japanese Boy Learning to Play Guitar.
JON LEE: So, you think of this painting as a failure?
MATT SESOW: They all are. The ones I struggle with the most are the ones that are most successful for other people. For me it’s a lot of paint. It’s muddy. It’s just a lot of paint. And it’s probably done.
JL: Do you like any other artists? Are there any other artists you admire?
SESOW: I don’t like paintings. I don’t like art. I really don’t. I think it’s stupid. I go to shows and I hate it all.
JL: There’s not one artist out there? You like Picasso, no?
SESOW: Not really. I was looking at his book today. A lot of it looks junky. Like, a lot of his stuff looks fast. Yeah. I really don’t like art. I really don’t like art. This is a scoop.
JL: Yeppers.
SESOW: I don’t like painting. I don’t. I see something in Bacon and De Kooning. But I don’t like them. I mean, I’d rather have my paintings up in here than a Bacon, or even a Basquiat. When I look at other paintings, I always think they are junky and fast. Like there isn’t enough paint on them. I don’t think people use enough paint. Especially in America.
It’s really funny. People that are privileged and have electricity are skimpy on paint. It blows me away. You should never skimp on paint. You should paint like a millionaire.
I used a whole fucking tube of Prussian blue today. I was squeezing it on and suddenly it was done. It’s like twenty bucks and you’re done. But, you know, it’s fine.
JL: Well, and you’re going to sell that.
SESOW: For forty bucks at Sowebo. Seriously. If nobody buys it online, I’ll take it to Baltimore and some kid with a mohawk will say, hey I like that and I’ll say eh forty bucks and he’ll buy it.
But online it’s gonna be $300. Because I want the kid with the mohawk to have my painting over some bourgeoisie pig in New York City. Although I do have a lot of great fans in New York City and I love them all. But I would rather the blue collar or the lower income people have my paintings. I’ve given my paintings away to people before because they liked it. I mean, if you like it, take it. I don’t care. I’ll do more. You need that kind of freedom as a painter and an artist.
To have that freedom you have to squirrel away all your money. I guess people need cell phones these days. I don’t have one. But try not to have a car. Live in a city. You can’t really live out in Paducah, Kentucky and be an artist. I almost moved to Paducah. You really can’t. You can’t. You need to have open studios. You need to go out and see a homeless man throw up on a church step. You need to see that. You need to hear stories about muggings and protests. You need to hear the 42 bus hissing all day. You know? Otherwise, you’re making it up.
JL: Answer honestly. What do you do?
SESOW: God. I don’t know. What do I do? I try to keep myself from getting depressed. I constantly strive to be different. Or to continue to be different. That’s what I do. But what I think defines us is our youth. And lucky me, I got hit by an airplane when I was youth[sic]. So what happens to us early on is probably what defines us the most. Fortunately for most people, or unfortunately if you are trying to be a painter, most people have normal lives in America. Maybe drugs, divorce, but really, it’s a normal life.
We are defined by a moment. That moment might be getting married or having a child. Which is great, congratulations. But for me, if I tried to do those things I wouldn’t be happy and I would end up shooting myself.
Oh, I’m going to paint about my kids today. Or I’m going to paint about the PTA today. Which is fine. And you know what, families are more important than being a painter. I didn’t say that out loud did I? I will never have a family. Other than these children in here. These are my children.
JL: Having a kid and painting are actually similar things. They are affecting the world. The passion that is on these walls is creating something. You may even deride it, but when it goes out in the world and goes on people’s walls, it’s doing something right? It’s more than decorating.
SESOW: I think at current estimate, there are around 5,000 Sesow paintings. And eBay is mysteriously silent. There were two in the last two months. And those people will be paying full price from now on. You put my stuff on eBay, you’re dead to me.
JL: What’s wrong with eBay? Why can’t people sell your stuff on eBay?
SESOW: Because I’m not dead yet. They can buy an original from me for less than what it’s going to cost them on eBay. And what I do now, when I see something on eBay, I recreate it and put it on my web site and sell it for less.
eBay is the anti Sesow. Artists on eBay should ask themselves what they are going to buy with that money. What are you going to buy with that money? You going to buy a car? Are you going to buy a girlfriend? Or are you going to buy paint? Are you going to buy canvas?
You need to ask yourself, where does your money go? eBay to me is money. And what are you going to do with your money? It’s silly. I’m going to make a million dollars? I don’t know what I’d do with a million dollars. I’d do the same thing as I’m doing right now.
JL: You use your web site to sell artwork. People using eBay are doing the same thing.
SESOW: It’s bidding. It’s thirst for unattainable things. It’s like a flea market. You want to be the first one to grab the pink underwear because everyone wants the pink underwear. I used to live in San Jose for three years. We used to go to the flea market at this big drive-in theater on Saturday and Sunday. We would go to the flea market and there would be hundreds of vendors.
People swarm around things on eBay because other people give things value. You can create a false sense of interest in a product. Like I could have my friends artificially bid up the price of my paintings. Intellectually, I think selling paintings on eBay is a scam. Making money doesn’t mean success.
JL: You are a successful artist. Did you want to be a famous artist?
SESOW: 99.999999 percent of artists wanted to be artists. They wanted to be painters. They want to be famous. I never wanted to be a famous painter. I think I wanted to be famous. But I wanted to be a famous porn star. Seriously. Or like a Bill Gates.
JL: You didn’t want to be a painter?
SESOW: You know me. I don’t live the painter life. I don’t go out and fuck chicks. I don’t go out and fuck. I don’t go out and… I don’t go out. I don’t go out in Adams Morgan and say, eh I’m Mat Sesow the painter. I don’t go to Starbucks and Tryst.
JL: I’ve only been out with you once besides art shows and you were at the Black Cat.
SESOW: And I was probably passed out drunk. Because I can’t deal with it. I can’t fucking deal with the idea of being a painter. Here I am. My studio is safe. This is safe land. When I go out to shows… It’s a disease I have. Um, alcoholism is what they call it. But seriously, I can’t deal with it. I can’t deal with people dealing with me as a painter. I want people to deal with me as me. I didn’t sit in my bedroom when I was twelve and say I want to be a painter.
JL: Well there are people that do.
SESOW: 99.9 percent of painters do. Your readers do. I challenge them to travel. Join the Peace Corps. Do it.
Stay tuned for more…
Japanese Boy Learning to Play Guitar, Matt Sesow, 2006
Posted by Rock Heals at September 6, 2006 12:00 AM
